Environmentalcases and Hunters/Shooters

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Re: Environmentalcases and Hunters/Shooters

Postby JimFromTN on Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:33 am

So, really, are you convinced what's happening now is no worse than what happened under Bush?

YES

And really blaming Bush for the mortgage meltdown that everyone else knows was engineered by Barney Frank and all his cronies, half of whom are now financial advisers to Obama?


But I thought it was Clinton's fault, no wait, it was Jimmy Carter's fault. But wait, Phil Gramm spearheaded the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which was significantly to blame for the 2007 subpreime mortage crisis and the 2008 global economic crisis. The bill deregulated the financial services industry. Gramm also spearheaded what was later to be know as the Enron Loophole which deregulated energy trading which ended up causeing the gas prices to go up over $4 a gallon. See what deregulation gets us in this country. It opens up loophole to the slimey stains of amerca to take advantage of and screw us all over.
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Re: Environmentalcases and Hunters/Shooters

Postby sluggertwo on Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:24 pm

Still waitin' for any answers about whether OIG oughtta keep his Jeep and feel good about it, or if his nutjob neighbor really has a point. Agree that if you want to blame somebody for mucking up the country, then pick any politician in office over the last 20 years and you'll be right on target. Just means that only crooks run for office, and the only choice you have is whether you try to get your own crook in there or have to put up with somebody else's. Look at Clinton just getting that big statue in Kosuvo, for helping his buds over there bomb out and kill off most of the original not-muslim people and handing the country over to what looks a lot like Al Kaida to me............. So anyway, keep the Jeep, or agree with the creep? What was the right answer?
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Re: Environmentalcases and Hunters/Shooters

Postby sluggertwo on Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:47 pm

WOW! Found myself checking out Senator Gramm after that post of Jimmy's, and now I'm having to agree with him about something again. Giving me chest pains. Here's the down low on this lowdown creep who used to be a Democrat and turned Republican just to keep a job and infiltrate the enemy camp:

Gramm was one of five co-sponsors of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.[5] One provision of the bill is often referred to as the "Enron loophole" because some critics blame the provision for permitting the Enron scandal to occur.[6] Some argue[who?] that it is significant that Gramm's wife, Wendy Lee Gramm, was on the board of directors of Enron when it collapsed, and she was named in many of the Enron shareholder lawsuits.

In December 2002, Gramm left his Senate seat a few weeks before the expiration of his term in hopes that his successor, fellow Republican John Cornyn, could gain seniority over other newly elected senators. However, Cornyn did not gain additional seniority due to a 1980 Rules Committee policy.[7]

[edit] 2007 mortgage and 2008 financial & economic crises
See also: Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act#Controversy
Some economists state that the 1999 legislation spearheaded by Gramm and signed into law by President Clinton — the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act — was significantly to blame for the 2007 subprime mortgage crisis and 2008 global economic crisis.[8][9] The Act is most widely known for repealing portions of the Glass-Steagall Act, which had regulated the financial services industry.[10]

Gramm responded to criticism of the act by stating that he saw "no evidence whatsoever" that the sub-prime mortgage crisis was caused in any way "by allowing banks and securities companies and insurance companies to compete against each other."[11] The Act passed the House by an overwhelming majority and passed by unanimous consent in the Senate, though it was introduced on the last day before Christmas holiday and never debated by either congressional body. [12]

Gramm's support was later critical in the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, which kept derivatives transactions, including those involving credit default swaps, free of government regulation.[13]

In its 2008 coverage of the financial crisis, The Washington Post named Gramm one of seven "Key Players In the Battle Over Regulating Derivatives", for having "[p]ushed through several major bills to deregulate the banking and investment industries, including the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley act that brought down the walls separating the commercial banking, investment and insurance industries".[14]

2008 Nobel Laureate in Economics Paul Krugman, a supporter of Barack Obama, described Gramm during the 2008 presidential race as "the high priest of deregulation," and has listed him as the number two person responsible for the economic crisis of 2008 behind only Alan Greenspan.[15][16] On October 14, 2008, CNN ranked Gramm number seven in its list of the 10 individuals most responsible for the current economic crisis.[17] In January 2009 Guardian City editor Julia Finch identified him as one of twenty-five people who were at the heart of the financial meltdown.[18] Time included Gramm in its list of the top 25 people to blame for the economic crisis.[19]

[edit] John McCain 2008 presidential campaign
Gramm was co-chair of John McCain’s presidential campaign[20] and his most senior economic adviser[21][22] from the summer of 2007[23] until July 18, 2008.[20] In a July 9, 2008 interview on McCain's economic plans, Gramm explained the nation was not in a recession, stating, "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession." He added, "We have sort of become a nation of whiners, you just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline."[24] Gramm's comments immediately became a campaign issue. McCain's opponent, Senator Barack Obama, stated, "America already has one Dr. Phil. We don't need another one when it comes to the economy. ... This economic downturn is not in your head."[25] McCain strongly denounced Gramm's comments.[26] On July 18, 2008 Gramm stepped down from his position with the McCain campaign.[27] Explaining his remarks, Gramm stated that he had used the word "whiners" to describe the nation's politicians rather than the public, stating "the whiners are the leaders."[28] In the same interview, Gramm said, "I'm not going to retract any of it. Every word I said was true."[29]

[edit] Current employment
As of 2009, Gramm is employed by UBS AG as a Vice Chairman of the Investment Bank division. UBS.com states that a Vice Chairman of a UBS division is "...appointed to support the business in their relationships with key clients."[30] He joined UBS in 2002 immediately after retiring from the Senate.[31]


So the guy sponsors all kinds of bank deregulation, his wife is involved in the Enron deal, he gets on McCain's election team and torpedoes the old man at every turn, and comes out of it all as a top official in one of the biggest International Banks, that also seems to have a dodgey track record on the edge of being criminal. By the way, it was CLINTON who signed the bill that started all the mess, Jimmy, my boy, and I'm thinking Gramm has always been an undercover Democrat, and poor old McCain, even after all his war experience, failed to see the double crossing double agent inside his campaign.

And this guy is now worth millions and living in Hawaii, and not in jail or in front of a firing squad? Funny old world, innit?
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Re: Environmentalcases and Hunters/Shooters

Postby JimFromTN on Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:20 pm

Yes, Gramm caused all of this so he must be a democrat. Its so obvious.

By the way, I said OIG should keep his truck. If everyone got 28mpg, our gas usage in this country would probably go down by a 3rd. I also said that the auto industry should focus on improving deisel engines since they are kicking hybrid butt in gas milage and deisel does not have to be a petroleum based fuel and it does not need the batteries.
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Re: Environmentalcases and Hunters/Shooters

Postby Brush Hunter on Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:20 pm

JimFromTN wrote:Yes, Gramm caused all of this so he must be a democrat. Its so obvious.

By the way, I said OIG should keep his truck. If everyone got 28mpg, our gas usage in this country would probably go down by a 3rd. I also said that the auto industry should focus on improving deisel engines since they are kicking hybrid butt in gas milage and deisel does not have to be a petroleum based fuel and it does not need the batteries.


I think Slugger's got you there, Jim. Gramm WAS originally a Democrat, and his record in Congress reads way more Demo-ish than Repub-leaning, and the campaign he ran for McGoo looks like a textbook on how to get the other guy elected. By the way, bio-diesel may look good on paper, but its another of those cases where the question is, if you don't extract diesel when refining crude oil, then what are you supposed to do with it? Kinda like folks whine about plastic, not knowing that most of it is a byproduct of oil refining, and if you didn't complete the conversion to plastic, then you'd have millions of tons of gooey plastic precurser to deal with. Its all part of the process.

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Re: Environmentalcases and Hunters/Shooters

Postby JimFromTN on Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:24 am

Gramm has been a republican since 1983. Deregulation has been a republican platform for decades. Only a fool who knows absolutely nothing about politcs would say that deregulation is on the democratic aganda. Isn't regulation what makes government big? Newt Gingrich was originally a liberal republican, by the way.

As for diesel, the less fuel that combustion engines burn the less oil needs to be refined and the less deisel by product there is. My point being that we don't even need to refine oil in order to power deisel engines.
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Re: Environmentalcases and Hunters/Shooters

Postby sluggertwo on Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:12 pm

JimFromTN wrote:Gramm has been a republican since 1983. Deregulation has been a republican platform for decades. Only a fool who knows absolutely nothing about politcs would say that deregulation is on the democratic aganda. Isn't regulation what makes government big? Newt Gingrich was originally a liberal republican, by the way.

As for diesel, the less fuel that combustion engines burn the less oil needs to be refined and the less deisel by product there is. My point being that we don't even need to refine oil in order to power deisel engines.


Trying to have a discussion with you is like arguing with a tape recorder that just plays back the same talking points instead of mounting a real response. Brushie's point was, if you look at his picture of the process, you can't leave diesel out if you're cooking crude to get any of 20 other things that you need. You get some percentage of everything, unless you retool the whole process to chamge the mix, and nobody wants to take out half the products and dump the rest, with crude at $80.00 a barrel. You're gonna just be some Polyanna Demolib, and tell the refineries, "Oh, no thanks on the diesel, we don't want that, make it go away" Same thing happens if you tell em, no, don't want any plastic anymore, plastic is bad. They process a couple million barrels of crude and DON'T extract the polywax plastic precurser, then you get mountains of the waxy shit dumped in your Louisiana marshes.
Ever here about unintended consequences? Like some envirowhiners out my way were all upset about timberwolves going extinct on us some years back, and got them protected, then imported a few breeding pairs to help them recover, and now the damned things have overbred and are kiling half the fawns that get born, and the deer herds are in trouble. What a GREAT PLAN. Point being, looks to me like nobody's being big picture on any of this environment crap, just doing their little individual obsession thing, and mucking up everything more than it was before they stuck their little elitist we know beter than everybody else noses into things. I'm talking about that jerkoff that started all this getting in OIG's face about his SUV, and Al Gore and all the Globbal Warning pissants who are really just against industry of any kind except maybe herb farming..... using only solar power and flourescent grow lamps in their basement farms, of course.
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Re: Environmentalcases and Hunters/Shooters

Postby Remmy-870 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:37 pm

Slugger2,

Don't feel like the Loan Arranger there, pal. We got EPA, DOD, Homeland Insecurity, and BLM (Bureau of Land Management) plus about a million USDA idjits looking up every cow's butt out here, all telling us how to farm, what to plant, where and when we can fertilize, spray for bugs, when to milk which cows, etc. to the point where some days you just want to give them keys to the barn and the tractor shed, and say well, you know so effin' much about everything, you go run the farm, and I'll follow you around with my clipboard every day from now on. After all, every one of these guys is from some city college back East, not one of them is smart enough to walk around a cowpie instead of stepping in it, and yet they have the whole government behind them, so their word is law and 10th generation farmers like us are supposed to take their "advice" or look forward to a fine or shutdown. Had one talking to me the other day about changing the cattle feed to a mix with less bran and grain in it so they'd pump out less methane, help the environment, and etc. Dumbass figured grain and such was like the grain in beer, making them pass gas (fart) too much. Didn't even know that cattle have that 2 stomach thing going, so they don't pass gas hardly at all, but they burp methane all the livelong day. Can't light cowfarts unless you want to burn their faces off. EXPERTS, right? From the government, goin' to help you do your job better because they know everything and you don't. Probably hire the same kinda experts to work on climate change and healthcare and whatnot. Need to herd the whole crowd out into a big field and plow them under for fertilizer, most of them being so full of s--t, and all anyway. Stands to reason to me if a government cattle farming expert doesn't know which end of a cow is for gas and which is for s--t, there might be a problem letting any of them try to run things.
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Re: Environmentalcases and Hunters/Shooters

Postby JimFromTN on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:34 am

sluggertwo wrote:
JimFromTN wrote:Gramm has been a republican since 1983. Deregulation has been a republican platform for decades. Only a fool who knows absolutely nothing about politcs would say that deregulation is on the democratic aganda. Isn't regulation what makes government big? Newt Gingrich was originally a liberal republican, by the way.

As for diesel, the less fuel that combustion engines burn the less oil needs to be refined and the less deisel by product there is. My point being that we don't even need to refine oil in order to power deisel engines.


Trying to have a discussion with you is like arguing with a tape recorder that just plays back the same talking points instead of mounting a real response. Brushie's point was, if you look at his picture of the process, you can't leave diesel out if you're cooking crude to get any of 20 other things that you need. You get some percentage of everything, unless you retool the whole process to chamge the mix, and nobody wants to take out half the products and dump the rest, with crude at $80.00 a barrel. You're gonna just be some Polyanna Demolib, and tell the refineries, "Oh, no thanks on the diesel, we don't want that, make it go away" Same thing happens if you tell em, no, don't want any plastic anymore, plastic is bad. They process a couple million barrels of crude and DON'T extract the polywax plastic precurser, then you get mountains of the waxy shit dumped in your Louisiana marshes.
Ever here about unintended consequences? Like some envirowhiners out my way were all upset about timberwolves going extinct on us some years back, and got them protected, then imported a few breeding pairs to help them recover, and now the damned things have overbred and are kiling half the fawns that get born, and the deer herds are in trouble. What a GREAT PLAN. Point being, looks to me like nobody's being big picture on any of this environment crap, just doing their little individual obsession thing, and mucking up everything more than it was before they stuck their little elitist we know beter than everybody else noses into things. I'm talking about that jerkoff that started all this getting in OIG's face about his SUV, and Al Gore and all the Globbal Warning pissants who are really just against industry of any kind except maybe herb farming..... using only solar power and flourescent grow lamps in their basement farms, of course.


No one is debating whether deisel is a byproduct of refining oil. The point is that the less oil refined, the less deisel by product there is. Deisel engines don't have to run on the by product of oil refining so if we were to stop refining all together we could still run our deisel engines. If everyone got a nice vehicle that gets 28mpg like OIG has, then we would not need to refine as much oil and there would not be as much deisel by product.

As for the wolves, how did anything survive before we wiped them out.
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Re: Environmentalcases and Hunters/Shooters

Postby JimFromTN on Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:04 pm

Remmy-870 wrote:Slugger2,

Don't feel like the Loan Arranger there, pal. We got EPA, DOD, Homeland Insecurity, and BLM (Bureau of Land Management) plus about a million USDA idjits looking up every cow's butt out here, all telling us how to farm, what to plant, where and when we can fertilize, spray for bugs, when to milk which cows, etc. to the point where some days you just want to give them keys to the barn and the tractor shed, and say well, you know so effin' much about everything, you go run the farm, and I'll follow you around with my clipboard every day from now on. After all, every one of these guys is from some city college back East, not one of them is smart enough to walk around a cowpie instead of stepping in it, and yet they have the whole government behind them, so their word is law and 10th generation farmers like us are supposed to take their "advice" or look forward to a fine or shutdown. Had one talking to me the other day about changing the cattle feed to a mix with less bran and grain in it so they'd pump out less methane, help the environment, and etc. Dumbass figured grain and such was like the grain in beer, making them pass gas (fart) too much. Didn't even know that cattle have that 2 stomach thing going, so they don't pass gas hardly at all, but they burp methane all the livelong day. Can't light cowfarts unless you want to burn their faces off. EXPERTS, right? From the government, goin' to help you do your job better because they know everything and you don't. Probably hire the same kinda experts to work on climate change and healthcare and whatnot. Need to herd the whole crowd out into a big field and plow them under for fertilizer, most of them being so full of s--t, and all anyway. Stands to reason to me if a government cattle farming expert doesn't know which end of a cow is for gas and which is for s--t, there might be a problem letting any of them try to run things.


Of course, those who complain about regulation of fertilizers or pesticides, never think about their neighbor down stream. I mean after all, it kills bugs not people, right? These same people want to fill in swamp land and change the path of a river on their property. If it happens to cause a flood and kill their neighbors down stream, who cares. It did not happen on their property. Then again, everything mentioned in the above quote is about regulation and we all know that democrats and the liberals are against regulation so it must be all the republicans fault that we have to worry about cow farts.
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